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A talk between the scientist and Kabbalist Michael Laitman with the Kabbalah Academy instructors, Michael Sanilevich and Yevgeniy Litvar

July 10, 2007

Content

• Two types of creatures: Man and Woman

• Should women rule the world?

• What do women want?

• The male ideal

• Is there such thing as fate or destiny?

• How do we understand each other?

• The soul has a sex

• What does it mean to be “made out of his rib”?

Two types of creatures: Man and Woman

E. Litvar: Greetings! Today we’re in the studio with a famous Kabbalist, Rav Michael Laitman, PhD. By “we” I mean Michael Sanilevich and myself, Eugene Litvar, instructors with the World Academy for Kabbalah Studies.

Recently we’ve received a multitude of questions from people that have acquainted themselves with the materials of our site. Also, a massive survey has been conducted on the streets of major cities around the world. People were asked the question: “If you had a chance to ask a genuine Kabbalist three questions, what would they be?”

We have thus chosen several topics, and today we want to discuss one of them with you. The topic is expressed rather simply—“man and woman.”

M. Laitman: And yet, explaining it from the standpoint of Kabbalah is no simple task, particularly because it lies at the foundation of the entire world. I realize how significant this topic is. It has always been significant, but today even more so—it worries everyone, considering the problems that have been recently emerging in society.

M. Sanilevich: Why is it that there are men and then there are women, us and them? Does this division have a spiritual root?

M. Laitman: There are men and then there are women, because there is the Creator and then there's the creature, created by Him—two of them, two partners in this tango. There is the prototype of the Creator—the giving, dominant leader—that's the male root. And then there's the creature—receiving, drawing closer to the Creator, bringing them together—the female root. The same applies to our life in this world. If we were to act correctly, clearly understanding how these two roots are implanted in nature and interconnected, then we would do quite well—both men and women. After all, it is not just us, but all of the nature before us is divided from above downwards into clear-cut male and female roots.

E. Litvar: In other words, the difference between men and women is that man corresponds to the Creator…

M. Laitman: His root stems from the Creator…

E. Litvar: …and woman—to the creature?

M. Laitman: …and woman from the creature.

E. Litvar: Then man isn't a creature?

M. Laitman: Man is a creature as well. We're talking about two types of creature; it's just that their roots stem from different sources: the root of one is in the Creator, and the root of the other is in the created creature.

E. Litvar: Does that mean that the Creator created woman, but did not create man?

M. Laitman: No. The Creator created a single being—he created Adam, just as it is written. Then, out of Adam (allegorically speaking) he further created a female part. The Creator created a desire to receive, to become fulfilled. Then this desire split into two different parts: the desire to become fulfilled for the sake of others and the desire to become fulfilled for one's own sake. The desire to become fulfilled for the sake of others is the male constituent. The desire to become fulfilled for one’s own sake is the female constituent.

E. Litvar: In our world, this is not at all obvious.

M. Laitman: Yes. In our world, none of this is obvious! Our world is opposite to the spiritual world, and thus everything in it is also opposite. Moreover, not only is it opposite (if only it were that simple!), it is also completely mixed up.

E. Litvar: Then all of us sitting here, who consider ourselves men, cannot yet brag about the fact that we have something in us from the Creator?

M. Laitman: Of course not. With regard to our connection—nothing, except for a seed, a root, a certain tiny spiritual gene, and nothing more.

E. Litvar: Does that mean that I don’t yet have any grounds to show off before my wife?

M. Laitman: No. Spiritually you are no different from your wife in any way.

E. Litvar: That’s a pity. I liked the beginning better.

M. Laitman: That’s something you need to work on.

M. Sanilevich: But who’s better—men or women?

M. Laitman: That’s not even an issue. If the creature attains its root, its destiny, it becomes good; if it doesn’t—it’s bad. If it aspires to attaining its root, then to the extent of its effort, regardless of its level, we can talk about who is better and who is worse.

E. Litvar: In our world, as a rule, men are stronger than women.

M. Laitman: How so?

E. Litvar: Physically…

M. Laitman: Ah! In that case, why don’t you take an elephant or something along those lines?

E. Litvar: Do spiritual roots have something to do with the fact that a man is physically stronger than a woman?

M. Laitman: Yes, of course. Because the physical form of a man as compared to a woman is as though a reflection of the Creator—on the surface, he is less dependant on others and on nature than a woman. Among other ways, this is manifested in his strength.

E. Litvar: In other words, he is less dependent in terms of the spiritual, but not in terms of our world?

M. Laitman: No. What you’re asking is this: “How is the fact that the Creator is above the creature manifested in our material world; is it reflected in the properties of men and women?” Man is as though (as though!) less dependent on others, on the world, even on women, on his family, but that’s just on the surface. In reality, if we take inner relationships and examine how they function in nature, we will see that it’s actually the other way around—that it’s the woman who leads all development and nature’s course, and not the man.

E. Litvar: We have a question on this topic from one of our female students. She says that in the modern world many women hold dominant positions—leaders of corporations, heads of families, they feed and support their families. And the modern man gladly and readily accepts the woman’s dominant role. This worries women, and they're asking how Kabbalah relates to this issue: a) Why did women begin emerging into leading roles? and b) Should it be so?

Should women rule the world?

M. Laitman: I'll explain briefly. So long as our world remains uncorrected, so long as we exist in a state opposite to the spiritual—the more our world is ruled by women, the better off and the safer it is. Should the world begin to correct itself, turn to its true goal, instilled by nature, and move toward it, the situation and the roles of men and women would need to be immediately changed. Man will need to be the leader; essentially, this will be revealed instantly.

It is precisely the fact that today woman is ahead and out at the forefront, that she asserts herself as dominant and a leader, as the stronger and more energetic constituent, whether she wants to or not, all this testifies to the fact that our world is uncorrected, wrecked and in a state of crisis.

As soon as we begin to emerge out of this crisis and utilize Kabbalah to do so, the natural contacts and interrelationships between our world and the Upper World will be established. Optimal relationships will begin to form within our world between all of its parts—man will instantly rise and become the leader in this life, and woman will gladly accept this. Man will become more dependable, not like he is today.

E. Litvar: Would it be correct to say that the increasing activity of women with regard to certain weakness of men is caused by the fact that men are subconsciously afraid to take any steps toward spirituality?

M. Laitman: To a certain degree, that is correct. Aside from that, this is manifested in everything else—in education, in the division of family duties. Look at families in Sweden—after a divorce, the children generally stay with the father, and not with the mother. Man is the one receiving alimony. In most cases he sits home and cooks, and the woman goes out and makes money; in other words—everything is not how it was in the stone age… There was no such thing as a woman hunting (except for Amazons, but that’s mythology) and a man sitting in a cave… How is he going to feed the children? With his breast? In other words, absolutely everything is unnatural. All of this testifies only to the revelation of a genuine, severe and enormous crisis in all things and on all levels.

What does a woman want?

M. Sanilevich: I have the following question: why is it that a woman is always dissatisfied with her man, but, conversely, always praises someone else’s?

M. Laitman: I think that it's simply her fantasy—to her it seems that someone else's man is exactly how an ideal man should be. Essentially, the woman herself doesn’t really know what she wants from her man. This isn’t some flaw of hers; I'm simply referring to nature’s manifestation. She’s being pushed forward by a harsh law of nature, which is closely related to her and manifests in her.

Woman searches for the correct structure of the world. She is closer to nature and feels within that the present world structure is incorrect. This includes any and all interrelationships: with the children, within the family, between families, and, naturally, between nations. It includes even those relationships that she essentially has nothing to do with. But they all press on her and worry her, because the current global, international and ecological state affects the family, the children and their future; in one word—everything. Thus she suddenly becomes tied to such an enormous space, which was previously limited to just four walls of four rooms: kitchen, bedroom, living room and nursery, as this was her entire world. After all, it was only recently that women were even allowed to go outside! And now it’s the opposite, it’s as though she’s being kicked out: “Go and work, bring home the other half of the earnings.” No one had ever seen anything like this!

In the natural order of things, woman constitutes the home. She raises the children, runs the household, cooks, and greets her husband. This stems from as far back as the Stone Age, and this is how it should be today as well. The fact that in our time everything is opposite tells us that we’ve reached rock-bottom. So, being unhappy with one’s man is perhaps a result of mass media providing her with other ideals… Although it seems to me that everywhere we look we only see man’s negative image, and not a positive one, but for some reason everyone savors this fact, loves this image. We are not raising the younger generation with positive images; hence the collective discontent.

Actually, this isn’t even discontent. I think that it is the general impression that women get from men that invokes in them the aspiration to give them less freedom, to be less dependent on them, to expect less, not to appease themselves with illusions. The times of old have passed. That is why women today are becoming more independent, more leading.

M. Sanilevich: In view of what you said, a question arises: is there a spiritual root to feminism at all?

M. Laitman: Everything stems from the same place. Today it is already clear why women want to take everything upon themselves, why they don’t want to be dependent on men, why they’re organizing everything between themselves. They are naturally more dependent, but they don't want this dependence, because they cannot stand it. It is impossible to be dependent on the part of nature that suddenly begins to malfunction and fails to provide them with what they demand and deserve. Therefore, on one hand, the manifestations of feminism are unnatural, but on the other hand, they are a natural result of today's crisis.

And, of course, we need to take this into account. Do we have a choice?! This is the larger part of humanity, its “stronger half,” and right now it’s coming out ahead. Today there’s still the influence of religion and other remnants, which hinder this process. If, however, liberation of conventionalities takes place in religion and in all the other areas, where man traditionally held the leading role, our world will acquire an entirely different nature—the one that it should acquire to the extent of its corruption and oppositeness to the spiritual world. We’ve said that in the roots man prevails over woman, whereas in our case it is the opposite, as our world is truly opposite to the spiritual one.

E. Litvar: Is this phenomenon positive or negative?

M. Laitman: Neither, it is natural—in equilibrium with nature. Nature thus balances itself between the two worlds. Hence, opposites must be located one opposite the other.

E. Litvar: Many say that, whether consciously or not, women sense the spiritual world or spirituality much more acutely, are much more sensitive to it than men. Perhaps women have a certain inner ideal of a real man? And that is the reason why a woman is always dissatisfied with her man—because her man doesn’t match this ideal?

M. Laitman: The problem lies in the demands. Because the female spiritual root is lower than the male, its demands in our world are also lower than the level of “man” in an individual. In reality, man demands of a woman the following things: service, faithfulness, fidelity and looks that would satisfy him.

Whereas a woman, seeing as she looks upon her man as though from below upwards, in accordance with the spiritual root, demands from him a higher level—not the animal one that he demands of her, but one that is spiritual, soulful, human, cultured and so forth. From this stem all the familiar differences in our world in the demands of men toward women and women toward men. This stems from the spiritual root and thus manifests in absolutely all forms and on all levels of our relationships: family, society, with our children (both girls and boys), and so forth—everywhere.

Again, there’s only one solution: to correspond to one’s spiritual root. There is no other way. Half-baked solutions won’t get us anywhere. They will only deform the world and delay the process of correction, to which it must eventually come to anyway. Since nature doesn’t tolerate emptiness, it doesn’t tolerate opposites, unless these opposites are balanced with one another harmoniously. Therefore, in spite of all of the negative forces that we call upon ourselves via our disparity with the spiritual roots, we will nonetheless need to reach equilibrium—homeostasis.

We must study this equilibrium as the principal law of nature. Essentially, this is my profession. This is precisely what Kabbalah deals with—it teaches one to be in accord with his spiritual roots. Otherwise, there’s nothing we can do—we have absolutely no chance of opposing nature or running away from it and hiding somewhere. Therefore, to be a real man or a real woman is to exist in full accord with our spiritual roots. And then we will simply exist in a limitless, eternal and perfect dimension of nature, in harmony with all its levels.

But meanwhile, we will continue to see women becoming more and more independent. And their emergence onto the level of independence and leadership accelerates the emergence of more and more men’s problems. That is because the correction of the world, meaning oneself and all of humankind, rests on man, since he is the one that possesses within himself the Creator’s root. In this task, a woman is only his helper, as it is written in the Bible: “I have created for you help against you.” So, man will continue to look more and more pathetic, and woman will become more and more independent, strong and complete.

E. Litvar: I’m afraid that men won’t be all that happy to learn this, but I’ll ask anyway. Can we deduce from the aforesaid that the constant demands on the part of women to their men with regard to their obligations to their wives and families are justified (in accordance with spiritual roots)?

M. Laitman: In accordance with spiritual roots, if man were to fulfill his foremost mission—self-correction,—and would do the same with regard to his wife and kids, i.e., if he were to inject a spiritual element into the relationship between them, his woman would demand of him nothing more. Her demands would be minimal, since, owing to her spiritual gene, this is the very thing that she inwardly desires to see in her man—this and nothing else. Minimal household provisions, even if they live in a cave in today’s modern world—as long as she’s happy with her man when it comes to the spiritual, to the soul.

E. Litvar: In other words, if man were to introduce into his family some spiritual advancement…

M. Laitman: And minimal income…

E. Litvar: …then the woman’s demands, which she constantly pressures him with from all sides—“give me!”—would fundamentally change?

M. Laitman: Yes.

E. Litvar: Hear that, guys? There is a cure!

M. Laitman: The cure is very simple: pick up a book, learn what “man” and “woman” signify in the spiritual world, and abide by it. I guarantee absolute understanding, harmony and delight in family life to everyone, to anyone—starting with presidents and ending with farmers.

M. Sanilevich: You were talking about the notion of a real man, and I thought of the following question: what does it mean to be a real man from the standpoint of Kabbalah? We were all brought up on Hollywood movies, and whether I want to or not, I already have a certain imprint, some idea of what a real man is.

The male ideal

M. Laitman: Because we nonetheless contain within us a spiritual root, the male ideal for a woman constitutes attachment to and feeding from the male spiritual root. When she attaches herself to him, she thereby makes it possible for him to develop and grow.

Man cannot develop spiritually without a woman. In particular, when new people come to Kabbalah and start studying, they begin to clearly feel that they need a family. We’re talking about a man who is already beginning to sense his spiritual root, himself, and how he should advance further. Just as the bond between the two roots of the universe—male and female—exists above, man needs to establish the analogy of this bond below in our world as well. He needs to construct this model here—both within himself and outside in the family unit.

This is precisely what constitutes this ideal for a woman. She feels it within herself, since she is very close to nature. She won’t be enticed by all the toys that man creates for himself—sports, politics, the stock market and so on. She begins to participate in it all, because today she is pressured—she feels that the world is such and these are the rules that she needs to play by. But in reality, if you listen in on women talking, and look closely at what they’re saying, you will see how far it is from even the modern woman. She is close to nature, and she needs that which exists in her spiritual root. This cannot be ignored. So look for the male ideal there.

M. Sanilevich: And what is “the spiritual”?

M. Laitman: The spiritual is the force that stands behind matter and drives us. It is not something imaginary or far-away. It’s everything that I’m doing right now, everything that guides and governs me: my thoughts and desires that arise in me from out of nowhere, my decisions, everything that happens around me at every moment with either individuals or objects. All of this is governed by a net of forces, which is created and programmed in nature beforehand, manifest in our imagination and sensations as time (past, present and future), and provide us with new substances.

What is more, today we begin to understand that there are other dimensions, other worlds and other possibilities of existing in other sensations. So then, if we return to nature, then all that exists around us, but isn’t perceived by our corporeal senses and isn’t taken into account thereby (although there is much we lose because of it—from not knowing where we are), is called the spiritual world. It truly exists—with all its information and the forces that govern us, but we do not sense it. All of this is referred to as “the spiritual.”

If we were to obey its laws, be in congruence with it, understand the way in which it exists and how it created and governs us, then we would be comfortable. We do not know and do not understand these laws, and we receive constant blows, and are always making some strange and terrible blunders. The science of attaining the spiritual world is called Kabbalah; in other words, this science deals with reception of Upper information. So, all of our problems—both male and female—exist below, but all the solutions exist above.

M. Sanilevich: In other words, man is considered spiritual if he attains this net of forces?

M. Laitman: Yes. A spiritual man or a spiritual woman—in general, any object in our world (in our world!) that connects properly to its root, or at least tries to establish this connection, is considered “spiritual.” That is to say, he tries to discover for himself the Upper World that governs us so as to be in accord with it, and thereby unite the two worlds in harmony.

M. Sanilevich: And this satisfies a woman completely?

M. Laitman: Of course! All of nature aspires to harmony, to interdependence and homeostasis. It is just as it is in our body: if some cell breaks the correct relationship with other cells, then the work of the entire organism suffers, and it is considered sick. We are the same way—our entire human society is simply one (and only) enormous, sick creature in the entire Universe and in all the worlds.

E. Litvar: Would it be correct to say that the entire human society is a sick cell?

M. Laitman: No, it is not a cell. In reality, the entire human society is simply the entire world of today, since it includes the still, vegetative and animate elements of nature. Therefore, if we correct human society, or, in other words, if we supplement it with the correct relationship with regard to its spiritual root, we will then establish nature’s balance on all levels, including the ecological (meaning the still), vegetative and animate. But that’s a whole other topic altogether.

E. Litvar: It’s a very interesting topic…

M. Laitman: It deals with balance of all of nature in both worlds.

E. Litvar: In your previous answer you mentioned something about a person not being able to understand where his desires come from.

M. Laitman: Thoughts and desires, both in his heart and in his mind. I don’t know what’s going to happen to me the very next moment: what will I desire, what will I think about?

E. Litvar: And where does this come from?

M. Laitman: I’m not even mentioning the fact that in addition to the informational data (desires and thoughts) that arises within, I am also surrounded by phenomena that I cannot predict whatsoever. How can I possibly know for sure what will happen? “Everything flows…” but it is completely concealed from me, just as it is concealed from all of us.

This net of forces that governs us, as it fuels within us newer and newer thoughts and desires, exists according to a program that is completely removed from us, from our consciousness. Thus, we are essentially puppets that are being moved so as to compel us to start paying attention to the necessity of existing in harmony with nature—whether by the good path, namely by realizing and understanding this necessity, or by the bad—with the help of nature’s punishing blows. Where are we being moved? Toward the goal. Which goal? Equivalence with nature.

Is there destiny or fate?

E. Litvar: If we are all puppets, a thought arises about the existence of destiny or fate; that is, is everything in one's life predestined, predetermined? Am I simply walking along a certain path, along the steps of certain states that have already been prepared for me?

M. Laitman: Yes.

E. Litvar: Just like that?

M. Laitman: Of course. Not knowing which next step is the right one, we take all kinds of steps, millions of them, and they all bring us only failure. Meanwhile, whether we realize it or not, nature governs us and leads us to its goal. It follows that we are always trying to go in various directions, not knowing exactly where, and it seems to us that good things await us right around the corner, whereas in reality it only gets worse and worse. And nature is leading us to the realization that we are, in fact, in a bad state.

First and foremost, we need to begin to understand the world in which we live. Everything in it is interconnected. On one hand, through understanding all of nature and its integrality, we come to realize that the entire world is no more than a small village, and all of us in it are interconnected. On the other hand, we are giant egoists, and we don’t even want to live with our own families. And there it is—our inner egoistic nature, which tears us apart from one another, against the boundless and integral outer altruistic nature. And today we come to the revelation of this conflict: man, mankind—with regard to the rest of nature, our oppositeness to it. Herein our mission is revealed—to correct ourselves and become an integral element of all of nature.

E. Litvar: Several times now you’ve mentioned the notion of “nature.” But I’m not certain whether by that word you mean the same notion as I do. By “nature,” you don’t mean rain, forest or bunny-rabbits?

M. Laitman: Nature is one Law, one great Law, which governs matter in all its manifestations: still, vegetative, animate, human, and spiritual. All of the above, all that we can possibly imagine, including the Creator—in other words, everything in existence—is what we call “Nature.”

E. Litvar: Got it. That's a big topic.

M. Sanilevich: Should we return to the topic of men and women?

M. Laitman: Kabbalah is comprised of many divisions: perception of reality, juxtaposition of the worlds, their structure, man's ascent along these worlds, existence outside of one’s body, birth in this world and our exit from it—where and how. Fate or destiny of each individual—how it could be understood and revealed, and how to walk in unison with the forces that govern us. We will then be able to anticipate these forces, so that it will be us (and not them) who’ll be in charge of our own lives.

E. Litvar: So such an option is still possible?

M. Laitman: Yes. But for that to happen we need to recognize and understand these forces, and rise above them.

E. Litvar: Let’s return to the topic. A woman from Vologda is asking: why is it that men and women just can't seem to understand one another? If it’s important for women, men consider it nonsense, and, in turn, women think that men remain children forever. How does Kabbalah explain this complete lack of mutual understanding?

How do we understand one another?

M. Laitman: A woman is connected to nature. She is closer to nature, and that is why she makes fewer mistakes. She is not eager to charge ahead, she does not have the same flight of imagination as man does. She is unable to realize herself correctly or vividly outside of her home. This is not meant to be prejudice toward women—God forbid they misunderstand me.

If we take any occupation that requires imagination (even a top chef)—man will be better at it. Whichever occupation you take, even if it seems female-friendly, as soon as the woman steps outside the bounds of her home, she begins to struggle with it. Unless it’s a very special woman. Man is lost in his home, and woman is lost outside of it. And that’s something we need to understand.

According to spiritual governance, man must provide all the basic material necessities for his family, and in all other aspects he must tend to bringing himself, his family and society in congruence with spiritual roots.

In the eyes of a woman, everything else that he does outside of this is seen as nothing more than childish games. Because, in truth, she doesn’t even care about how much money is in his bank account, or whatever importance, power or fame he can acquire; she doesn't feel these things. Only men are impressed by them, and are ready to dedicate their whole life to them.

A woman does not measure her life with these categories at all. Being connected to nature, she measures her life solely with her confidence in today and tomorrow for herself and her kids, and the next phase is her confidence in her connection to the spiritual root through her man. If she has that, she doesn't want anything else. That is why the female ideals in our world aren't as corrupted as the male, but are subconsciously more correct, whereas the male ones are utterly out of accord with the spiritual root.

Man is the element that really has been playing games for too long; life is a game for him: he makes up all kinds of goals for himself, amuses himself with all kinds of games. Just as boys get together and play when they are young, they continue as they get older: fishing, soccer, cards, whatever they do—it’s all the same games. Man remains the “playing” element of nature. Why? Because with the help of these games he develops imagination, and he must connect to his spiritual root and begin the correction for himself and for his woman, but, unfortunately, so far he's not going anywhere past the game itself.

E. Litvar: Would a woman be satisfied with her man’s spiritual work, if it would consist of studying certain esoteric teachings or going to temple regularly, following a certain religion?

M. Laitman: That all depends on the woman’s development (on the level of her spiritual root), and manifests differently.

We're not talking about woman being this complete and corrected element of nature, and man being nothing but trouble, circling her like an “uncorrected” electron around a nucleus. We are all interconnected, and we all live in an uncorrected world. I’m merely pointing out which of us better senses its inner core, its natural necessities and the general flow of life, though in reality we are both uncorrected. Meaning, there’s no use demanding of any woman (including those who are asking you these questions) true understanding of what drives her, what she should strive toward, what she should demand of her man. In truth, they don’t understand it either. However, all of their problems are much closer to those that need to be solved by us—by men.

The soul has a sex

M. Sanilevich: If the soul lived in a female body throughout one’s life, does it reincarnate in a female body in the next life as well? Or can it reincarnate in a male one?

M. Laitman: No, it cannot. The soul has a sex, just as a body in this world has a sex. And since one's body is a derivative of his or her soul, this is not possible.

As we already know, in today’s world there are all kinds of incorrect manifestations between and within the sexes, but generally speaking, sex cannot be changed. After all, we’re not talking about a male or a female body. We’re talking about a spiritual gene, its state and root—which is invariable. Therefore, its manifestation in our world and in material capsules always corresponds to the root itself, whether female or male. So if today I am a man, I will remain a man, and vice versa.

But what’s the difference?! I don’t know or remember anything about my past reincarnations, so why should this concern or puzzle me? The fact that I dislike my present state as a man or a woman does not indicate whatsoever that my next state will be the same. That depends solely on the measure of my correction, on my equivalence with the spiritual forces that govern me. If I am in harmony with them, then I feel comfortable, and it doesn’t matter whether I’ll be female or male.

What do we mean by "I?" Where is this "I" that is transferred from one life into another, why am I presently concerned with: “Oh my! Will I be a woman in my next life?” What is my “I?” A person thinks that his “I” remains eternal and unchanged, that it is simply transferred from one body into another. But what he presently imagines as his “I” disappears along with his body.

E. Litvar: We have a question that's being asked by practically all women; I won’t even bother naming their cities, countries and regions. It goes something like this: can all women ascend into the spiritual world, and if they can, up to which level?

M. Laitman: Both men and women—whether consciously or by force—will nevertheless need to attain their spiritual root, from which they descended into our world and acquired a material capsule. Whether in this life or in the next, that is, only during their existence on our planet, they will need to attain their spiritual root and exist simultaneously in both the spiritual and in our corporeal worlds as one.

The sooner we do so, the better, simpler and happier our lives will be. The more we balk from this path, the greater suffering we will undergo, the more painful blows we will receive—like a stubborn child or an animal, who will still be forced to do whatever is required of them.

Our spiritual root is our goal, which we must attain. This is why today Kabbalah is disseminated so widely—it helps us to recognize this root that we must attain and the purpose of our existence on earth. As soon as we discover this, we begin to gradually harmonize ourselves with the goal, and our life immediately becomes far more stable, peaceful and secure.

M. Sanilevich: There is a prayer, in which man prays to the Creator and thanks Him for not creating him a woman. What does it mean?

M. Laitman: It’s very simple: man thanks the Upper Force of nature, called the Creator (in Kabbalah, Creator and nature are one and the same), which created him equal or similar to Itself, for this gives him freedom of choice to perform all the corrections in the world independently. In other worlds, he thanks the Creator for creating him potentially greater, equal to Himself.

In this regard, the female part is deficient, so to speak. In reality, it is not deficient in any way, for it is essentially the major part in this process—more important than the male. After all, all that develops ensues from the female part, as only with its help are new generations born and raised.

Imagine the world without women… If there were no women next to our newborn, the world would cease to exist in 50 years, 70 max. “A world without women” is ridiculous.

Woman is the origin of all that exists: she brings forth and cultivates absolutely everything. Man is as though a source of energy, while in truth everything develops according to the program that is implanted in the woman.

Here lies a very interesting correlation between the two sexes. Man is created like the Creator so as to unite with the Upper Source, deliver and then develop this energy and information. But all this is done only so as to pass it to the woman, who accepts this information, and constitutes the very soil from which nature continues to develop.

E. Litvar: So, with regard to their role in creation, women are more important than men?

M. Laitman: Ah! Precisely! All that we need to do is stop playing around, bring home everything that the woman demands, and all will be well.

M. Sanilevich: All the women that I know are jealous of men? Why?

M. Laitman: Because, unfortunately, women are dependent on men. But, in reality, if you give a woman all that is necessary, she will be happier than any man. As long as she receives that minimum requirement of spiritual energy from the man, she is self-sufficient.

E. Litvar: After our talk, would I be fully justified to start being jealous of women?

M. Laitman: In our world, there’s zero reason to be jealous of anyone.

E. Litvar: No, not in our world. In terms of potential.

M. Laitman: In terms of potential, these two parts of nature (of creation) unite together and achieve perfection of the Creator—nature’s uppermost level—but they achieve it precisely in their union, in complementing one another. So there’s no reason to be jealous of anyone! We should simply complement one another, and develop this unity until the level of harmony with the Creator.

What does it mean to be “made out of his rib”?

E. Litvar: I’ll ask you one last question: when Adam and Eve became ashamed of each other, did human beings already exist on Earth? What I mean is, were human beings already divided into men and women? Or did they appear after Adam and Eve became ashamed of their nudity?

M. Laitman: All the events described in the Bible are allegories, alluding to the Upper Forces that govern this world. So it’s difficult to base an answer on “Adam and Eve”—the images that you are trying to as though materialize.

Humankind exists for tens of thousands of years. Whereas we’re talking about a particular image, which, according to biblical timeline, existed 5767 years ago (dating back from our year of 2007). So does that mean that nothing existed before it? Some godling went and took some clay, some water and whatever else, and used it to shape Adam? And then took out his rib and made a woman out of that? We need to perceive all these things as the spiritual forces that act in our world—only then will we be able to really see their true manifestations.

Adam (in our world) was a man who really did live 5767 years ago, and at a certain point in his life he felt a longing to attain his Upper root—the Upper Force. “A longing to attain one’s Upper root” is a desire to discover who I am, where I come from and what I’m doing here. And this longing emerged in him for the first time 5767 years ago. By the way, this man also wrote a Kabbalistic book, entitled “Secret Angel.” What do I mean by “Kabbalistic”? One that contains sensations obtained via attainment of Upper Forces, impressions from their contact; all that he had seen and attained—he described in that book. It has reached us as well. You can buy it at any store that sells that kind of literature.

So, the state that you are referring to here—the whole thing about Adam being created by God’s hands out of clay and water, and then a woman being created out of him—obviously never took place. These allegories allude to the spiritual forces that shape the image, called “human”—both man and woman.

What does it mean to be “made out of his rib”? This is actually an incorrect translation of the word “Tzlaot.” In reality, this word has several meanings—“shadow,” “image” and “rib.” So, just as man is created similar to the Creator, but opposite to Him in his corruption, so is woman created opposite man. That is what’s being referred to here, when it is written—“made out of his rib.”

E. Litvar: Then she wasn’t made out of his rib?

M. Laitman: In Hebrew, this word translates as “out of likeness,” “image” of man.

E. Litvar: Well, it seems to me that after this our show is going to cause quite a stir.

M. Laitman: I don’t think so, these things are well-known. Many people know them, aside from Kabbalists. But those who really want to know the correct translation, the true commentary on what is written in the Bible… Well, how could anyone today close their eyes or simply dismiss those parts of the Bible that speak of creation of man and woman?

Essentially, the entire Bible speaks only of spiritual forces. It doesn’t speak of characters that exist in our world in a materialized form, like you or me. That is why the Bible is considered a holy book—it exists above our world and speaks of the forces that govern us. Why else should I study it? Otherwise it’s no more than a book of history or morals. The reason it is holy is precisely because it speaks of the Upper World and the Upper Forces. If I attain them, become similar to them, and begin to interact with them harmoniously, I will reach their level and attain eternity and perfection, just as these forces are eternal and perfect.

E. Litvar: Let’s move on to the next topic, which is primarily of interest to men. The name of the topic is “Sex.”

M. Laitman: I want to add that it is impossible to answer all of the questions in the world. They keep arising—question after question. That’s why only systematic knowledge, however minimal, that a person can acquire through literally several beginner lessons of Kabbalah, will help him. Our talk merely explains the range of questions and issues that Kabbalah deals with. But if a person wants to really make sense of these issues, after only a few lessons of our beginner courses, he will be able to answer the questions himself.