Dr. Michael Laitman Education Series
With Limor Soffer-Fetman, educational psychologist and psychotherapist, and
Eli Vinokur, education content manager for the Bnei Baruch Kabbalah Education & Research Institute
Eli Vinokur: Hello All. We talked about many stages: we concluded the stage of nursing, and now are moving forward in the stages of development. So, where should we begin?
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Does Kabbalah relate to the first three years of life?
Michael Laitman: Yes, but we are constantly building and constantly changing the foundations.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: What does changing the foundations mean?
Michael Laitman: Through the progress we make, we strengthen the foundations, expand them. It’s as if we are building a small house and then we expand it and build it higher, in which case we also need to add bricks, cement, iron and so on to our foundations. First, according to the wisdom of Kabbalah, up to the age of twenty years, twenty spiritual years, we are in a state of constant progress and development of our souls.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: That is not in corporeality, it doesn’t have to be twenty years?
Michael Laitman: Even an adult who begins to study the wisdom of Kabbalah, starts from zero and might enter conception, spiritual conception, after a few years. This period is called “nine lunar months.” You see, that means there is no correlation to corporeal numbers. Spiritual time moves according to the pace of one’s development, not according to the movements of the sun or the moon.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Okay, so a person changes throughout life, but you are also referring to the foundations. That’s something slightly different.
Michael Laitman: The foundations too, because at every degree I also add to the foundations. What does it mean that I add to the foundations? At the age of fifty, when, let’s say, I have become a grandfather, I begin to understand my parents and my grandparents. By that, my foundations change. I begin to understand why they treated me the way they did.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Yes. Okay, so if we go back to the first three years for a moment, psychology generally refers to the first three years as something in which the baby’s initial connection with the world develops.
Michael Laitman: The connection between the baby and the world cannot develop before the age of two.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: The baby’s connection with the world.
Michael Laitman: He doesn’t sense it. He is incapable of sensing the world.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: I mean, through the mother.
Michael Laitman: Through the mother it senses the mother, or whoever is substituting her. It doesn’t sense the world. According to the wisdom of Kabbalah, until the baby is two, it has no tools for grasping. It’s as if it is still in the womb.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: An external womb?
Michael Laitman: Supplementing the development in the womb.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: There is a traditional approach which says that babies shouldn’t be taken out of the house for forty days.
Michael Laitman: Correct. Forty days is the degree of Bina, yes.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: But on the other hand, there are mothers who call me a week after giving birth, “I’m in the mall, why not?”
Michael Laitman: Well, you know, there is life and there is what is right according to the roots. According to our roots, there is definitely no point taking out a child before it is forty days old, separating it from the mother.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Physically?
Michael Laitman: Physically. Forty days is the degree of Bina. This is the first degree where it is external. After forty days, it begins to somewhat perceive the fact that it is external. Before that, it doesn’t know where it is. The baby doesn’t understand, doesn’t respond, and is incapable of anything. But after forty days the bond with the mother becomes less confined, though until the age of two it still needs to be attached to her.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: But in those two years, how significant is the physical closeness to the mother?
Michael Laitman: I think it is very important for the baby to be as close to the mother as possible.
Eli Vinokur: There is often the fear that the baby will get used to that and won’t be independent.
Michael Laitman: No, not at all.
Eli Vinokur: So it should be on the mother for as long as possible, even sleep on her?
Michael Laitman: No problem, even tied the entire time, either on her back or in front of her, it doesn’t matter. A child needs to feel as if he is inside the mother, he should actually feel as if he is inside the womb. The smell is very important.
He also receives many vaccines from her that way, being near the mother. I don’t know how to put it, but she conveys to him many things of hers, through her mouth, through her skin, she supplements him. She adds a lot of things to him, even substances through her saliva, through her hands, it is very important.
There are things that we still do not understand; science has yet to discover them, but according to the wisdom of Kabbalah, in those two years the child receives from the mother everything he did not receive inside.
Eli Vinokur: I once heard you explain very nicely that it is like a womb expanding upon the child. At first it is an internal womb; afterward, his room is the womb, then the house is the womb, and later perhaps the neighborhood is a womb.
Michael Laitman: Yes. If we could raise a child that way, he would actually embrace the whole world.
Eli Vinokur: Up to the womb of the Upper One, perhaps?
Michael Laitman: Yes, and to him, everything would be natural, beautiful, and pleasant.
Eli Vinokur: Regarding taking him out of the house, at what age can that womb begin to expand?
Michael Laitman: From the age of three.
Eli Vinokur: So until the age of three they are not to leave the house at all?
Michael Laitman: No, until the age of two, which is nursing. He should be at home and near his mother.
Eli Vinokur: Can he be taken on an outing every once in a while?
Michael Laitman: Yes, but again, I am not talking about the modern times; I am talking about what is said in the wisdom of Kabbalah.
Eli Vinokur: Right, about the ideal.
Michael Laitman: There are no outings in our books, you know, it isn’t written that there should be outings.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: That doesn’t mean it’s wrong to do that today.
Michael Laitman: I don’t know. I certainly don’t tell my daughters or my grandchildren what to do.
Eli Vinokur: But it is interesting to know what is the ideal to aspire for, or at least to be familiar with and to know that it exists.
Michael Laitman: We mustn’t put a child in an inappropriate or even hostile environment. Until the age of two, he should feel that he is near the mother all the time. Afterwards, from three onward he begins to understand the surroundings, the society, the friends, to play with them.
He begins not only to learn from them, but there begins to be some communication, a connection between the child and other people.
Eli Vinokur: Up until age three, what does the child need? In other words, what music, stories, materials for integrating senses are needed?
Michael Laitman: You can start it while it is still in the womb. What does that mean? If the mother listens to music or takes interest in art or in all kinds of things, surely it affects the child. We can see how the children of developed people are born.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: That means that I have a responsibility even at that stage, because everything she undergoes, goes on to the fetus.
Michael Laitman: Even before she gets pregnant. We don’t give our children only food; we give them many things that we aren’t even aware of.
Eli Vinokur: With regard to sensuous development, how is it best to develop a child to have a broader view?
Michael Laitman: Indeed, the quicker a person develops, the better are one’s chances of developing further. But again, I am talking about corporeal development, not spiritual development. Spiritual development has nothing to do with it; it depends only on the root of one’s soul. And if spiritual development has come to a person, that person will develop regardless of age. It could be a highly sophisticated, educated individual, or a layperson. It depends on the root of the soul, and neither on the parents nor on the way he or she was brought up.
However, in relation to corporeal development, it is surely advisable to develop the child as early as possible.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Okay, what about the father’s role during those two years?
Michael Laitman: Through the mother, the child does not understand the father. It doesn’t feel him. The child should sense the father beside the mother and not alone.
We also see that from the wisdom of Kabbalah. In Kabbalah, the father is located above the mother and influences the baby through the mother.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: So there is no recommendation for the father to be in direct contact with the baby.
Michael Laitman: No, because the baby still can’t absorb anything from the father, but only through his mother. If the father is next to the mother, the baby perceives it as an addition to the environment.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: What about differences between boys and girls in regard to the father?
Michael Laitman: At this age, they still don’t sense gender or attraction to something separate. It is a stage where babies are not considered human beings. It is considered, as we said before, that they are still developing within the womb, albeit in a more external way. So you do want to stimulate the senses, to teach them what you can, but at the end of the day, it is impossible to raise him as more than a little animal. Of course, you play music for them, you teach him colors, and so on.
Eli Vinokur: Like a cub?
Michael Laitman: Yes.
Eli Vinokur: Regarding the age of three, as far as I know, in the wisdom of Kabbalah they usually start to teach reading and writing at age three, is that correct?
Michael Laitman: Yes, correct.
Eli Vinokur: This is different from the traditional approach, which usually starts at school age.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: The current approach is that there is difficulty remembering at this age. This is why they wait until the age of five or six to start school.
Michael Laitman: In the orthodox education they also begin at three. I know that my son started learning at that age, and now my grandson is learning. They start studying the alphabet at age three.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: What about games at this age?
Michael Laitman: Games are possible.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Doesn’t it come at the expense of playing or the child’s need for games?
Michael Laitman: Why? I don’t understand why you have such reservations about the ability to teach the letters?
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Because they are abstract forms and there is great difficulty with memory at this age. The memory is just being built.
Michael Laitman: Children can absorb a million times more than what we give them.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: That is true, but it seems as though we’re forcing them.
Michael Laitman: It depends how you do it.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: What they really want is to play.
Michael Laitman: Then give it to them as a game.
And besides, we need to understand that the child, too, needs to understand that there is some duty about it, to sit down and not to get up.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: That is why the tendency is not to create that obligation so early.
We know that later they will have to sit down for so many years; there is a kind of punishment in that.
Michael Laitman: Wait, if the child knows and gets used to it, it won’t be a punishment, it will become a habit, and then his life will be easier.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Well, what could be an advantage is getting them used to being obedient.
Michael Laitman: This is certainly an advantage.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Doesn’t it take away their childishness?
Michael Laitman: What do you mean by childishness, to go wild?
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Yes, to do whatever you want, yes.
Michael Laitman: But we see that in all the cultures in the world, the ancient ones, too, children would be educated alongside the grownups.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: True, it was very common.
Michael Laitman: Yes, girls this way and the boys that way.
Eli Vinokur: Sitting next to the father.
Michael Laitman: Yes, dancing by the fire, around the fire and all that. Children have always learned what to do from adults. I don’t see any justification for what we are doing today. Even from the spiritual aspect, because after all, it explains to us the spiritual roots, and why shouldn’t we carry them out in the corporeal branches?
Limor Soffer-Fetman: So why, from the perspective of Kabbalah, is it so important to begin at age three?
Michael Laitman: Because from that age the child begins to perceive things. And we need to add to him what nature seemingly didn’t implant in him. Instead, we need to bring it to him. It is a single system. There are things that a person receives inside the womb, and there are things one receives through nursing, through the mother who takes care of him, through the father, and through the surroundings. It needs to arrive on time, according to the age, according to the gender, and this is how a person develops and becomes integrated in life, harmoniously connected with reality, and not as we feel like doing, from age five or six and so forth.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Are you saying that it’s artificial, that it doesn’t suit the child?
Michael Laitman: I think it is simply incorrect because it doesn’t coincide with his inner development. It doesn’t match. You know, we also have periods, a hormonal period for example, or hormonal development. First, a period with the friends, then a period of romantic relationship, then another period of something else, of studying, competition, or children, etc., there are periods.
With children, the periods are very clear-cut. Children’s lives are very active, so we should provide them this development as soon as possible—social development, development in music, dance, language, reading, and writing.
There are seven teachings that we should teach our children, and among those teachings are dance, painting, and music.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: We should?
Michael Laitman: Yes, they should be taught at school.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: It isn’t enrichment, a supplement for money.
Michael Laitman: No. The child should know them.
Limor Soffer-Fetman: Oh, this looks very different.
Michael Laitman: Everyone, everyone should know it. Without it, a person doesn’t understand nature accurately, doesn’t connect properly to the environment, so children need to take lessons in all of these teachings.
July 19, 2010