Description

Iran's nuclear threat to Israel has a silver lining because it's forcing Israel to take the international lead in shifting to a new world order that resolves to stop the fight because it's too dangerous. Nature is compressing the world into a single living system in which each country has an integral and cooperative role to play like a cell in an organism. Humanity is in a sphere called "nature" and human beings are the only element going against it and hence we suffer. America has a unique opportunity to serve as a role model demonstrating how to achieve reciprocity with nature without sacrifice to its standard of living. Any country that does not follow the law of nature and adopt a common set of economic rules respecting interdependency will fall.

Transcript

TV Program with Dr. Michael Laitman
"20 Ideas"

"Nuclear Threats Aren't All Bad"

With participation of Seth Bogner

June 29, 2009
New York

Seth Bogner: I've been thinking about this whole situation in Iran. I have a lot of friends, especially in London, that are Iranian expatriates. Now they have the bomb, they're going to have the bomb; it's imminent they're going to have the bomb. And they can't work within themselves, they can't get along internally. This worries me. This worries me not just for myself, but as an American Jew this worries me for Israel too.

Dr. Michael Laitman: Well, I'm an Israeli Jew and it doesn't worry me. It doesn't worry me at all. I understand that Ahmadinejad and his whole regime are actually in our benefit, in our favor. It accelerates our development, it brings us to a point of decision where either we shift into a new world order and begin to understand that if... It doesn't matter; if it's not around today, it's going to be Gaddafi or Venezuela, Chávez, whatever.

There can always be danger. We have to make a global resolution for everyone all over the world, that we're stopping the fights. It's impossible today. Anyone today can have missiles-if not today then tomorrow-or an atomic bomb; it's not a problem. You think... How many countries today are standing right before having a nuclear bomb? So what's going to happen in ten years?

Seth Bogner: You always talk about, you always say... When I hear you talk about, "now they have to come to this realization, they have to do this, they have to do that," doesn't it have to start with each person?

Dr. Michael Laitman: No, no. Every person is different. If you want to wait for every person... I'm talking about governments. If governments could arrive at some kind of agreement that that's it-it's too dangerous...

Seth Bogner: It took them five years to go from G-7 to G-20, so you think they're going to come and agree?

Dr. Michael Laitman: We can't allow ourselves to be late. If Iran starts with a nuclear bomb, that's it, the whole world will explode; it's not going to be something small. The minute there is a real danger, then even Israel might attack. The Emirates, Saudi Arabia, I think they're more afraid of Iran than Israel is.

Seth Bogner: Oh absolutely, absolutely. I travel... I spend a lot of time in those countries.

Dr. Michael Laitman: And Egypt and all that. In other words, there's finally a situation where, thanks to Ahmadinejad, with his help, we're being forced to arrive at some kind of agreement - an international agreement. But we have to finish this up; we can't play these games anymore.

Seth Bogner: But everyone is still playing their own power games. You have the United States on one side, you have Europe on the other side, you have China on the other side, and the Arab countries on the fourth side, and maybe the countries in South American; the other Third World countries have different sets of interest.

So right now, even between... In the financial crisis, you had coordinated policy actions between the central banks in the United States and Europe. China played along, but China at the same time said, "We're making our own rules as we go along. We're going to do what's good for China." For example, they never let their currency float. They still held their currency at an artificial level that wasn't really reflective to its value. They can't figure out the little stuff.

To me, the right answer would have been, after all this happened: it proved that there was a global crisis, that we were all in one system. If the crisis didn't show them that everything was connected, they're deaf, dumb, and blind, right?

So why couldn't they at least say, "Okay, we're going to just have one set of rules"? Instead, there's a set of rules coming from Germany, a set of rules coming from Japan, a set of rules coming from America, and none of the rules are doing anything.

Dr. Michael Laitman: No, no. What countries produce (their own laws and all this protectionism), that's all temporary. We're inside a general, natural law. Nature is closing us in, in a single system. If some entity, some country, wants to isolate itself, it's as if an organ in the body doesn't want to cooperate with the rest of the body. It'll be harmed.

Look at what happened to Russia. It's declining and it'll soon just disappear and collapse. It'll be torn into pieces by its territory and everything, because they've created laws that don't follow the laws of the world. It's like they're playing the opposite way. It's the same for China; they won't be able to sustain themselves. Another year, another two years, it's going to blast.

It's as if you're saying, "Yeah, we can create artificial laws" (the Chinese Government, that government, this government), "and then go by these laws." We're in nature; our laws have to adapt to nature, to match it. Without it, we won't be able to exist. It's going to happen with China too and it's going to happen with America too, but for different reasons.

Seth Bogner: Getting back to China, you have probably the most repressive government in the world, which is now the second biggest economic...they've just overtaken Japan as the second biggest economic power in the world. So, is the fact that they're not treating their people...?

Dr. Michael Laitman: So what, so what? It doesn't matter. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. If they don't keep the law of nature, they're going to fall. It's as simple as that. In my eyes there is no other way. We have to know that today nature's law is integralness, it's connection. Those that go for connectedness will benefit.

Seth Bogner: But how do we actualize this? How do we make this happen? How do we... What do we...?

Dr. Michael Laitman: Through blows we're going to recognize it; real blows, one after another. Another crisis and another crisis, until we hold our heads in our hands...

Seth Bogner: And this is going to change the collective consciousness of mankind?

Dr. Michael Laitman: Yes, of course. We'll see that we can't get along. Why are we calling the world global today, and integral? Why are we saying there's a butterfly effect, there's interdependency? Why are we saying that? Let's study what that means.

Seth Bogner: Well, you're already seeing people accepting these ideas more and more, at least I'm seeing it here in America, people accepting these ideas. But on one hand they're accepting the ideas; on the other hand they're going out and not loving thy neighbor, but beating thy neighbor with a stick, trying to get an extra two pennies out of him.

Dr. Michael Laitman: So, a few more blows and they'll start understanding that there really is interdependence.

Seth Bogner: What do you think about this whole thing with Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize? It made absolutely no sense to me. Here he is, he hasn't done anything yet...

Dr. Michael Laitman: No, it's not senseless. The Europeans played a beautiful game on him. They're forcing him to play with peace the way they want to play with peace, because they don't have the strength; they've already given up. They don't want anything, this old continent-the old continent, Europe-and that's what they want America to be like. So they gave him a Nobel Prize, saw that in order to justify the Nobel Peace Prize he'll behave nicely, so it'll tie his hands down. It's a very dirty game they're playing. That's what I think.

Seth Bogner: When you say, "tie his hands down" what do you mean? I don't understand.

Dr. Michael Laitman: I mean that now he'll have to... Because he received a Nobel Peace Prize, he'll have to act better towards the world and not be so aggressive, which he actually should have done, judging by the American interests. He'll have to be considerate of Europe and the rest of the world. That's what Europeans want of him. That's why they gave him the Peace Prize.

Do you know when they nominated him? He was only two years in office as the President and they already started thinking about giving him the Nobel Peace Prize. It's got nothing to do with anything he's done. It's just a political thing that they want it to be this way. Six months ago, that's when I saw this.

Seth Bogner: If you could give the advice to Obama right now, because on one hand you're saying it's not in America's interest to be more aggressive, but if you could give advice to Obama, what would you say to him right now about how America should act in the world?

Dr. Michael Laitman: America should show the world an example, like it wanted to be-an example to the world. It should show the world a role model, an example of what integralness means, what is the law of the new world. It should see what nature explains to us about how we should be connected to each other and how we can approach it.

Kabbalah explains that very clearly and very simply, and says we have to realize it. You want to check it out. Then the Americans too will maintain their lead in the world; they'll be a role model to the world and America will have its place. And I think, to the benefit of the world, it's going to happen.

Seth Bogner: Now they can't even agree that everyone in America should, if they get sick, that they should have an opportunity to go to a hospital. They can't even agree on this.

Dr. Michael Laitman: Well, that's because it's all based on the old rules. If you make new rules of connection among everyone, if you start operating businesses for only what's necessary for existence, and the rest that's redundant you won't produce it, you won't waste so much. You'll have plenty for everything.

Seth Bogner: I feel sorry for Obama. I think Obama, in his heart, wants to change things. I think that he's been roped into the "old boys" and how they've always done things. I'll never forget, after he sat down with Bush after he just got elected, he looked like he aged ten years after this one meeting. When I see this...

Dr. Michael Laitman: Of course, of course. He began to realize what was happening in the system.

Seth Bogner: I feel sorry for him. I think that he wants to get to another level. I think he wants to take it.

Dr. Michael Laitman: He doesn't know how to do it.

Seth Bogner: He doesn't know how to do it.

Dr. Michael Laitman: He doesn't know how to do it, and nobody does. Because, again, we don't have to be smart. We've gone above nature or against nature long enough. We have to be an integral part of nature. We have to study that law and simply follow it. That's what I would recommend to Obama and to the American Government, and to all the governments in the entire world, and to every individual person. We are in that sphere called nature and we people are the only element that's going against it, and hence we suffer.